censorship

[josef13]

censorship is ridiculous.
its that simple.
not one american law requires it, proposes it, defends it, or promotes it.
i understand the younger users of the site may not need to be around some of the words we use, but it is their parents job to check and note that our policy upholds all free speech.
and the censorship is not even full, it is just updated as 'offensive' terms are found.
and even then, some words slip by.
ie: i can say- [Edited], queer, dousche, god damn son of a bitch, etc etc.

so obviously, the censorship we have now, is not even effective.
and the censored word bar, only points out the fact that some one said somthing offensive, which a- draws more attention to it, and b- isineffective because then people know that you were trying to say ______ and are able to comprehend what you said in the first place.

now we move to the first amendment
(text in full= Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.)

all we are doing is upholding this most sacred document.
if the parents or administrators or the president even, are so against me saying
[Censored Word]
[Censored Word]
mother [Censored Word]
[Censored Word]

or any other offensive term, then can we just forget about the entire constitution?

so does that mean that they could take me to jail now?
not tell me what im charged with?
not ever give me a trial?
not ever give me a lawyer?
always hurt me?
even kill me?
all on the basis of nothing?

come on now, we have to keep within these rights, no matter if congress is making a law, or if we are talking about online censorship.

there is absolutely NO reason to censor what we say outside of site policy.
that policy truely needs to change.

[Sunt_eu_fericirea]

Mhmkayyy. I can understand that. But won't seeing these offensive terms drive people away from DC? Or any public site for that matter. Profanity is obviously not widely accepted, or it would not be censored. Does that make sense?

[josef13]

*obviously hadnt noticed at the point of posting this that the admin had posted on the open forum thread dedicated to this*

i am now addressing what 'matt' (an admin) said about censorship here on DC


(

Dear D-C Forum Users,

How did I miss this gem of a thread?! =)

To address the issue of "censorship" as it pertains to the users of this forum, allow me to summarize a couple of things.

Here at D-C we strive to provide and promote an environment of education, acceptance, class and safety for our users. The last thing we wish to do is to "oppress", "control" or otherwise subjugate you, the users, because without you, the users, this website would be worthless.

However.

In the same vein, generally speaking, subject matter such as profanity, sexual innuendo, drug paraphernalia, and a whole host of things I couldn't even possibly think of right now are NOT conducive to this target environment. It is for this reason that we have such strict (by some standards) censorship policies.

I am trying to avoid using clichés like "What would your mother think?" so let me close with a reminder.

Just because you are comfortable with a certain subject or style of language does not mean everyone will be. It is for that reason that we are vigilant, we want no one to feel unwelcome just because someone felt the need to use a four-letter word, rather than being a bit more creative in their writing.

=)

Besides, you should practice not talking like that anyway, one day when you have a real job your boss might not take too kindly to you dropping the F-Bomb in the hallway!

)


well
i understand your point about this being an educational site, but lets really be honest here, how often do we post things in threads outside of the open forum?
and how often does what we DO post outside of the open forum contain profanity?

i guess thats not as big of a point though, as is this really needing to be and educational site.
but education DOES NOT restrict profanity.
ESPECIALLY in debate.
go watch the CEDAs
or really any college tournemant.
i will stake a bet that you will hear at least 100 swear words if you walk the commons.
i will stake an even larger bet that you will hear at least half that if you were to watch all the rounds.

then there comes school
how many college professors have ever been fired for swearing?
and for that matter, how many high school teachers have been?
hell, how many grade school teachers have been?
even if a preschool teacher did, the worst that would happen is a shapr talk from the school principal. and that i can understand, they are five year olds.
as has been said, this site is geared towards high school students.
they are around this type of language all day long, five days a week, for 9 months, JUST in their hallways!

and anyways, if it offends them, they can always say something to the person they are talking to, or if they feel it is nessicary, leave.
its just not right to have to limit what we can say because you want to make others feel more at home.
it is not right for me to say "CBHS you dont make me comfortable with your nationalist ideologies, please leave or just dont talk about it anymore"
i know that because i had MULTIPLE threads deleted that specifically said this, i had MULTIPLE pm's from christia about me saying this.

what it all comes down to is
you are the ruler
and we are the ruled
we can leave if we want
but if we dont
we have to follow your rules

thats fine with me, but you exorcising your power in such a fashion as to OPPRESS me, i do not agree with.

---(and yes, limiting our expression through censoring our text IS oppression


Oppression is the negative outcome experienced by people targeted by the cruel exercise of power in a society or social group. It is particularly closely associated with nationalism and derived social systems, wherein identity is built by antagonism to the other. The term itself derives from the idea of being "weighted down."

The term oppression is primarily used to describe how a certain group is being kept down by unjust use of force, authority, or societal norms. When this is institutionalized formally or informally in a society, it is referred to as "systematic oppression". Oppression is most commonly felt and expressed by a widespread, if unconscious, assumption that a certain group of people are inferior. Oppression is rarely limited solely to government action. Individuals can be victims of oppression, and in this case have no group membership to share their burden of being ostracized.

we are being 'held down' in what we can say, and this is being done by a higher authority.~the essence of oppression
)---


sorry if im actin like a commie


if i am


its cause i am one.

[josef13]

Mhmkayyy. I can understand that. But won't seeing these offensive terms drive people away from DC? Or any public site for that matter. Profanity is obviously not widely accepted, or it would not be censored. Does that make sense?

that makes perfect sense, and first off it is a ridiculous societal norm, but on a more managable note, i dont think people would leave just because of it, and if they did, that is fine, because upholding the people who stay's rights, is more important than making others comfortable.

[Sunt_eu_fericirea]

Josef makes good points. And I suppose if somebody on DC did not agree with the use of profanity, they could just start a debate about it. That would contribute to this site, yes? So we do have the freedom of speech, but is it really appropriate to use profanity in certain environments? For example, is it appropriate to refer to reproductive organs as <<insert profane terms here>> in a high school Health Education class? Snazztastikal that we have the freedom to speak...but sometimes it is simply not proper/appropriate/polite.

[josef13]

but those terms you use are very subjective
what if i think NOT using them is not proper, or not appropriate or not polite?
who gets to decide that?
and if they are deciding it?
wouldnt it be hugely morally presumptuous?
wouldnt if be oppression?

and anyways, the coorelation between debate and acceptable is a line that has gone missing.
the essence of debate is challenging the rules
so if you are saying that a word is only as acceptable as its environment, you are saying that we as debaters, should use the most obscene, profane language that is possible.


*also, i would just like to note, there is a difference between profanity, and obcenity. i whole heartedly agree that obcenities are bad (not however, that they should be banned, because i beleive in TOTAL free speech) but profanity is NOT bad.

[Sunt_eu_fericirea]

Ja, I thought about that too.... So then does that mean there are no limitations?

[josef13]

i believe that everyone should have the right to say whatever they deem nessicary, but that each person should hold themselves to their own code of judgement when speaking. i believe in free speech, and the operation of practicing free speech, that does not mean i advocate those who use their words in a truely explict manner, however, it should be left upto them to decide what words to use.

[Sunt_eu_fericirea]

I was going to ask you if that includes racial slurs. but that would be a bit more along the lines of political correctness, no?
Not to ruin the seriousness of this topic...but...Would you feel comfortable if a doctor used the words he deemed necessary, and they were like [to a woman]: So, darling, how are things developing down in the #### area? You are becoming a woman you know, and pretty soon you are going to want to #### anything with a shlong. But trust me dear, it is a matural process." Or [to a man] "Problems with going to the loo, eh? You say it burns? Seems as if you have a cut on your piss slit. We are gonna recomend that you rub this ointment on your nuts, k?"

The point is, while person X is exercising their freedom of speech, person Y feels uncomfortable.

[josef13]

yea, and if they think that is appropriate more power to them
me and you obviously know that that is an extreme, and sure, it may, and probably does happen, but that is not up to us to judge.
and if a doctor talked to me like that, i would be offended because i feel that his responsibilty to me would be betrayed if he did that, but that doesnt mean i would be mad at him for using upsetting language
thats his choise
and believe it or not
im ok with anyone saying anything
if i think its wrong
i will say something, but i dont ever say that the actual act of them saying something should not have occured

[Sunt_eu_fericirea]

Ahkay. I get what you are saying. But then again, that is YOU. Not everyone feels the way you do. Hmm...I suppose it all comes down to the individual. Ehh...but what if that person who offended you was offended by you telling him that his choice of words was offensive in your eyes. It sort of creates circle. People can just say whatever the hell they want, and then those who do not like it will say something, and then the other person is going to "continue to excercise their freedom of speech" and then ........Oh my. I totally forgot where I was going with this...
*trails off inconclusively*...................

[josef13]

yes, that is exactly it, i agree with people being able to say whatever they want, but i still think they should be 'responsible' for their word usage

[Sunt_eu_fericirea]

You mean that in saying whatever they want, a person must accept the reposibility of excercising this freedom and the consequences that may follow? In that case, other people will be the judges of what is acceptable and what is not, which will probably cause a lot of conflict given the diversity of views.

[josef13]

no
i think that no one should be dictated in what they can say, that they should each have to only follow what they feel is right.
but NOBODY should be dictated.

[Sunt_eu_fericirea]

Then what/who determines when someone is not being responsible?